Paulina is originally trained as a nurse who then went on to study at the master's program in psychology, focusing on attachment and children with attachment trauma. She has experience from working with several children's rights organizations, in research projects and today she works full-time as a freelancer - giving lectures on topics such as the Convention on the Rights of the Child, children who are abused, child development and attachment, and doing projects within children's rights. She also blogs extensively on Aller Media's site Motherhood . Furthermore, Paulina is one of the organizers of Birth Inspiration Day, an event for pregnant women that empowers women for pregnancy, childbirth and the first days with a baby.
We meet Paulina at Pom & Flora on Rörstrandsgatan. It's half past ten and we all order a second breakfast. Before the meeting, we briefed Paulina about our concept; that we want to talk openly about the time as a new mother and the challenges she encountered. Of course, we want to zoom in a little on feeding, which takes up a lot of the first time. This is exactly what Paulina picked up on and would like, as she puts it : "by sharing my journey and my choices, maybe be able to strengthen or help others who are currently in a similar situation".
We at Unna are happy about that!
First (first) time
Paulina had her first child in 2014, and explains that by now she has processed a lot of the early days and can now look at the time from a different perspective with distance. But actually, she says, the early days were quite tough and that she still remembers how certain moments felt so well.
"You have a completely different distance to things just after a couple of years, but there and then it's really hard to have distance. The baby's needs and your own needs are now. Feeding, sleeping, your baby's well-being become your whole world," she says.
- What was your biggest challenge at first?
-The fatigue. Absolutely. Which of course was built up by the fact that breastfeeding was so messed up. It actually started already at the hospital. Every new staff member who came in gave new advice about grips and positions and how we should do it. I became more and more confused. My girl was tired and carried away and on several occasions a midwife bathed my baby with a towel with cold water to wake her up so she could breastfeed. For me as a new mother, it felt terrible! She slept restlessly and moaned in her sleep.
- How did it go then, when you came home from the hospital?
-At home we continued breastfeeding and I did everything I could to make sure we got off to a good start and that breastfeeding would work. But she slept restlessly and in retrospect I understand that she must have been hungry. At one of the first BVC checks it turned out that she had lost too much weight, more than what babies are expected to do in the early stages. After some time we finally got in touch with a breastfeeding specialist at Karolinska Hospital in Stockholm.
- How was it?
-Fantastic. The midwife we met saw right away what was wrong - my daughter couldn't get the vacuum grip needed to get the milk out. I was treated so well and really felt confident in the woman I met. She was older and experienced and confident in what we could do. It was so nice to get an answer to what we had experienced.
- How nice to get an explanation and that confirmation. What was her recommendation?
-The first thing she did was get the formula milk that she gave me to feed my girl. It was such a relief just to have her fill. I remember she fell asleep well later. Then we made a plan for how we would continue breastfeeding training – because I wanted to breastfeed – and feed formula in parallel.
- What did the schedule look like?
-I remember that at each feeding I would breastfeed for 10-15 minutes on each breast, then give a bottle and then pump. It was quite exhausting. It felt like I was breastfeeding, feeding, expressing and pumping all the time. Despite that, the milk was running out more and more. I tried to do what I could to make breastfeeding work and keep the production going. At the same time, I was so tired. Ah, I really remember how anxious it was.
- What made you continue to fight like that?
-I had read that breast milk is the best, and of course I wanted to give my child the best. So I tried to persevere and follow the plan. But after a couple of months I was really breaking down. I barely recovered, because even though my daughter was now full thanks to the supplement, she continued to sleep extremely restlessly and wake up often. Her sleep became so incredibly choppy. And when she did sleep, I had a hard time sleeping. I remember waking up often to see that she was breathing and that I myself woke up if she moaned. It was so draining both physically and mentally. Physically because of the lack of sleep. I remember a time when I really wondered how many hours of sleep deprivation I was from dying. Mentally, I was broken down by the feeling that breastfeeding and sleep weren't working - and the physical and mental are of course connected - and then all the uncertainty and sadness about maybe having to give up the best for my child. I was completely drained. Literally and figuratively.
- Did you reach a turning point?
-Yes, I remember it so clearly how I sat in bed one night and cried with that pump. Even though I pumped and pumped, in the end only a few drops of milk came out. I was so sad and discouraged and tired because it felt like it was over.
- So breastfeeding?
-Exactly. But then, as I sat there, I pulled myself together and decided that I was now putting this pump away. That all the struggle to breastfeed was over. It was with a feeling of sadness but above all relief.
"I was completely exhausted.
Literally and figuratively."
- Did you receive support in your decision?
-Yes, so my husband supported me 100%. He had also seen how it wasn't working and how I was feeling and had tried to support me. My BVC nurse also gave such great support and such great understanding. She really supported me and us in that decision. That, and of course time, made me more confident in my decision.
About expectations
Paulina reflects that when she was expecting, she never thought that breastfeeding would be a problem or difficult. She admits that she probably didn't have very clear expectations at first, but that it would involve breastfeeding and stroller walks and being woken up at night. "My focus during pregnancy was about giving birth, which I initially felt anxious about," she says.
We talk for a while about the fact that pregnant women with their first child generally have a hard time thinking beyond giving birth. It may be difficult to be receptive to the pieces and potential challenges that may come after the baby is born. Understandable. And it's reasonable to focus on one thing at a time. But it also means that there can be such surprises when something doesn't match the picture you had in mind. Or when it turns out that the first few days can be an even bigger challenge than the birth itself, which you thought was the litmus test. So you have certain expectations..
- Was there anything that went easier than you thought?
-It would probably be giving birth actually. And the recovery from it. I was so worried about it before, but it went well and I got fantastic support from my husband and the staff.
Paulina also says that in retrospect she can feel relieved and grateful that the love for the child came so immediately, something she knows is not always a given. That part, becoming a mother to my child, felt natural from the start.
- What advice would you give yourself as a new mother?
-Give yourself time to settle into the new – you will need time to navigate. Try to be okay with the uncertainty. And: there is support and help available.
- And besides that advice, what do you think you would have needed during the first time to make that time better?
-If the threshold had been lower for seeking help - and admitting to yourself that you might need support - like now with the care apps that exist, I would probably have sought help. Above all, I would have realized that I needed support and help.
Today, Paulina says, she feels she is being reached by so much good and inclusive information about the support you can get as a new mother. The contexts she is in may also contribute to her being exposed to and coming into contact with different fates, solutions and support. But the problem is, as always, she says, that it is easy from the outside to be clear-sighted and see when someone needs extra support. When it comes to yourself, it is more difficult. She says: "I was studying in the master's program in psychology at the time, but seeking support myself was difficult. In addition to professional help, I probably also needed more of a village of people, who can obviously support you in practical things in everyday life and who you also dare to seek help from. We have far too little of that in our culture today, both to be there and to dare to ask for help. "
- Was there anything, in retrospect, that you realize you didn't need at first?
-I wouldn't have had to buy so many breastfeeding things, haha!
Second child
Paulina gave birth to her second child, also a girl, in 2018. She says that the pregnancy was a very turbulent and also sad time because her mother was seriously ill with cancer and that both her mother and her father-in-law passed away while she was pregnant . "I really had too much to deal with at that time - illness, funerals, everything that happens when a person is about to pass away and has passed away - at a time when I should have taken it easy. There was no room for that then," she says. Despite these circumstances, Paulina says that she prepared more for her second child. "I both lived more and prepared myself for the first time after giving birth."
"The second time, I was aware and prepared that breastfeeding might go wrong again. I also knew myself better and knew, for example, how I might react and feel from lack of sleep."
- Did you do or handle things differently when you became a mother for the second time?
-Yes, I think overall I was more lenient with myself and gave myself time to settle into everything new. This time my daughter came by emergency cesarean section and I had a harder time recovering physically afterwards than with my first child, but I was more secure as a parent.
- How did you want to do with the food?
-I wanted to breastfeed this time too, but I was very aware that it wasn't a given that it would work. But I felt that it was a good start. She got a grip and I got milk production going. Then, at one of the early BVC checks, I found out that she wasn't gaining enough weight and that her height was also affected. That news triggered everything from my previous experience and I immediately thought: Not again! Not again! It stirred up very strong emotions in me and I started feeding her with a little formula along with breastfeeding, to make sure she was gaining weight. It takes hold of you so strongly if your child seems hungry and breastfeeding, which is supposed to give the child food, isn't working. We kept going like that for a while, but when it didn't work, I switched completely to bottles and formula with her too.
- How did it feel?
-I felt much more secure in my decision than the first time. In addition, I had a lot of other things to deal with at the same time, which made me more stressed. First, I also had a four-year-old to take care of, and second, my mother, who I was so close to, had just passed away. And then all the practical and emotional things that happen when a parent passes away. My father died when I was 17, so my siblings and I had an entire parental home, with everything that means, to take care of. In parallel with the enormous happiness of the children, I was also tired and sad at this time. There were many strong emotions at the same time. But in the role of a mother and in my choices, I felt so much safer with the second child.
The comparison trap
With someone like Paulina, who has been a mother for quite some time and who also meets and talks with parents professionally, we are curious to hear if she thinks there is any particular topic in the context that is talked about too much. If there is anything that feels stale, irrelevant or even disturbing. She answers that “Yes, in general I think people compare themselves too much. Too much simply becomes pure comparisons that often make someone feel uncomfortable or even inferior and inadequate. It can take away a friendly curiosity and often the willingness to honestly share”.
"I myself have felt that I have fallen into the comparison trap so many times that I have finally lost the desire to vent certain things with others. Often there have been comments where I have noticed that there is no understanding of the situation. Everything possible in parenting can be compared over the years with children, but the issue of feeding infants can be one of the first ones you encounter, since that is what you are doing at first."
The highs & lows of motherhood
- What's the most fun thing about being a mother?
-I want to answer: To love your children the way you do, but that is perhaps more the most powerful thing. The most fun? It has to be discovering the world with my children. Everything from going to the library, being in the forest together, to traveling to new places. That is the most fun.
- What's the most boring thing about being a mother?
-To get tired.
- Would you like to have more children?
-No. We are grateful for our two children. During the first time, which was tough, we actually considered not trying to have more. Now we have a second child and I am so indescribably grateful and happy for that! We have felt that there may be room for a third child, but it does not have to be a child you carried and gave birth to yourself. We are thinking about opening up for a third child as a family home or being there as extra support for someone in the future instead. Because there is room in our hearts for that.
Thank you Paulina for an open, honest and warm chat! Paulina's blog can be found here and if you want to read a post she wrote on the topic of breastfeeding and bottle feeding, it's here . She is available and active on Instagram as @paulina_gunnardo .
